[MUSIC PLAYING] DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: Welcome to the Transit Planning 4 All podcast series. This is DeBrittany Mitchell speaking and co-hosting today's podcast along with my colleague, David Hoff, from the Institute for Community inclusion. In this series of conversations, we invite transportation planners and advocates to share lessons learned in their journey towards inclusive transportation planning. 

Inclusive planning actively involves older adults and people with disabilities, and their efforts lead to the development of community and public transportation programs that effectively meet the needs of the people for whom they are designed to serve. 

DAVID HOFF: This is David Hoff. Today's featured speaker is Lynne Norris, a steering committee member at Worcester Community Connections. Worcester Community Connections is one of 22 coalitions across the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that provide family support services. The mission of Worcester Community Connections includes bringing out the voices of residents, better coordinating resources already in the community, and ensuring that services meet the needs of the people. 

In line with their mission, the need for access to reliable transportation was recognized. Listen as Lynn shares her story of responding to a threat to decrease already limited funding for transportation, and working with others to advocate to maintain and increase transportation funding and improve transportation services. 

LYNN NORRIS: Well, actually, I'm a rider from Worcester. And I was kind of thrown into it because they kept doing budget cuts. We were losing buses. People were getting stranded. OK. And the budget was constantly being cut, so a group of us got together. We had meetings, of course, at the library, and all the cities participated. 

And they were telling us, we don't have level funding. We don't have the money. So it began that way with cuts of services. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: OK. And can you just tell us a little bit more about the area that your efforts have been in? 

LYNN NORRIS: Yes. Originally, I was-- I still am-- with Worcester Community Connection. And that's an organization that deals with parents, and we tried to go in between services that are not being met. So it's a community organization. Statewide, I think we have at least 10 or 12 centers around Massachusetts. 

So of course, the parents got together, and we met a couple of times with the former Executive Director Jonathan Church, and we met with Senator Harriette Chandler, and the city manager, and we also attended the meetings that were at the library. So we took it a step further, and we even organized a group with RAC. 

Then we met with Jonathan before he left, and the senator, and come to find out that we did not have level funding. So basically, we had to go and lobby, and called the legislators that were doing the budget on funding. Then eventually, we went and messed with MassDOT, and that's how we began. 

DAVID HOFF: Yeah. And MassDOT is the Massachusetts Department of Transportation. So just a little bit of the background which I think is interesting is that you came into this from Worcester Community Connection-- 

LYNN NORRIS: Connection. 

DAVID HOFF: Yeah, which as I said, there's a series of these resource centers for poor families and there's actually 22 of them across the Commonwealth. And it's interesting that you came to transportation from that arena. That wasn't the focus there. It was more general focus there, and that you came to transportation realizing that was a critical piece that needed to be addressed. Is that correct? 

LYNN NORRIS: Yes. 

DAVID HOFF: In your advocacy efforts, so you mentioned what those consisted of. You talked about sort of going to the legislature about funding. So can tell us more about how that process occurred? How did you get engaged with that? 

LYNN NORRIS: Like I said, Harriette Chandler, the senator-- she's over that committee. And basically, she was saying, we need to advocate for the funding. And so we called the people that were on the committee originally, which was four members from different cities of Massachusetts. So we got everybody to email them, to call their offices, and lobby because we really needed $88 million. And they were saying they would not give us that much. 

So we kept the pressure on them, and we had demonstrations in Worcester from other cities that were also lobbying. So it was not just Worcester, but so it was a group effort. But Worcester more or less took the lead. We had state reps from Worcester telling us that they were lobbying for us, but we need to step up, which we did. So we went out of our way and we formed this group. It's two of them. 

And we also got somebody on the board from our group on the advisory board for Worcester, so basically, we did everything we could. And we still fell short, but at least we didn't get any services cut. And we're still pushing for level funding, which we cannot get because Boston-- the MBTA gets like $1 billion, and 15 communities have to share $88 million. So there's no balance in that. 

DAVID HOFF: The MBTA is the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority, so that's for the Boston area. And so yeah, they get the vast majority of state funding for transportation, for transit. So how did you connect with Senator Chandler? How did you connect with her originally? Do you remember? 

LYNN NORRIS: Oh, she's always been involved. We've always had a relationship with her. 

DAVID HOFF: At WCC? At the Community Connections? She's somebody who's been very involved with the community and that's how you connected? 

LYNN NORRIS: Right, and plus we knew she was on that committee, too. She was the head, the number one person. 

DAVID HOFF: It sounds like she was a critical ally in this process, in terms of guiding. 

LYNN NORRIS: Yes. She gave us advice on what to do, and who was not moving, who were the players, and yes, definitely. She's fighting from one end trying to get the funding, and we were fighting-- we were advocating. So it was a perfect fit. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: Lynn, in terms of inclusive transportation, what were some of the key issues that emerged that the community said, we need some changes in specific areas in order for the transportation to meet the needs of the community. What were some of the issues that people brought up? 

LYNN NORRIS: Those issues are still being brought up. Worcester is not really respected. Put it that way. OK? When you looking at comparing us to the MBTA, $1 billion they get, and we have to share $88 million between 15 communities. So do you really think we're included? But at least we have a voice and they know we're out here. 

DAVID HOFF: What would you say if you were to give advice-- because I think a lot of people, when they want to get involved with these processes, and a focus of our project is on individuals with disabilities, but also older adults. That's our focus, about getting them more included in transportation planning. But what would your advice be in general, because people can feel awfully intimidated by some of these processes or dealing with public officials. 

What would be your advice in order to be part of these processes and make your voices heard? Any advice that you'd have for folks? 

LYNN NORRIS: Well, like I say, we have the RAC and the TAC. The TAC is the disability part of it, and they are very active. They lobby. They do state house. They get grants, and they are well-respected. We are just getting on board about it, OK? We were just doing this individually, but evidently they've been doing it-- the disability community is much more advanced because they've been dealing with it longer. So we're playing catch up to them, and now we're working together with them. 

DAVID HOFF: So I think a few things there. Number one, you find out who's already at the table and figure out who's been doing some effective advocacy, and try to work together with them. 

LYNN NORRIS: Right 

DAVID HOFF: On a common agenda, I would say is part of that, as well, I'm guessing. 

LYNN NORRIS: Right. 

DAVID HOFF: --put words in your mouth, but-- 

LYNN NORRIS: No. Basically, yes, that's it. We found out working with them, they are a little more advanced. We're learning from each other. We do one part and they do another part, and it works out well. I was very impressed with the work that they were doing. I had no idea it was going on. 

DAVID HOFF: So a key piece is clearly knowing who's already out there doing effective advocacy, who's involved, who's engaged, and not just starting from scratch. 

What about the issue of, whether it's real or perceived, but do you feel like public officials, whether it's planning boards, or legislators, or whoever, transit authority boards, whoever might be-- have you found them receptive when you make your voices heard? Have you found them sort of open to listening? And what would you say is key to that? 

LYNN NORRIS: Well for one thing, from my understanding, certain parts-- Worcester is really not at the table. Some of these decisions are made strictly through Boston. And the advisory board, from my understanding, is doing most of fighting. So that's why we have to fight them from three different angles. Not only the people on the advisory board, but also the rioters and different groups. 

And a while back, when we were just forming our little group, we had people from education, from the youth, we had disabled people, we had people from about five different organizations at the table because there is a problem with the amount of money certain groups have to pay. We had a problem with that. 

Kids in school still have to pay the same amount unless they get certain passes. But this summer, the city helped a lot by giving kids that work or going to certain programs-- they did give them passes. But by the time the word got around, school was over. The summer was over. So it's been a lot of people stepping up trying to alleviate some of the pain, because the biggest problem is ridership. 

And they keep saying, oh, they keep trying to cut buses and raise fares because people aren't riding the bus. Well, our biggest complaint is the buses aren't reliable. They don't show up on time. If people have appointments, forget it. And the day passes? They could be much better. A person buys a day pass and only gets six rides, and that's $4.50. That's four dollars and 50 cents. And a person might only use two of that. 

So it's a lot of things to make the consumer try to make up the difference in the money. Well, the biggest thing it is, is Worcester needs level funding. $88 million, and we didn't even get the whole $88 million. I think we got $84 million. So you cut services, people are not going to show up. Or they can't afford to show up. 

DAVID HOFF: Yeah. Well, I was at the meeting in December, and I think there was a lot of discussion I think from you and others that people will only ride this system if you make it an attractive system to ride, that it's appealing to individuals, that it's reliable, that it's a pleasant experience. Otherwise, people are just going to stay in their cars-- those who have access to a car and private vehicle, that's what they're going to do. 

LYNN NORRIS: Right, and they're going to take Uber or Red Cab. And I know it's more, but most of these people that take these services are only going to do it once a month. And from then on, that's it. 

DAVID HOFF: So when you approached and done your advocacy work, what do you feel like is important? I think sometimes people think that advocacy or trying to get a voice at the table is a matter of just saying, here's what we need and here's what we want, and letting officials know. But is it more than that? What would you say in terms of providing guidance on that? 

LYNN NORRIS: Well, I must say, when we do have our meetings, we do have them at the hub in Worcester, and they are supportive. A lot of this stuff, they have no control over. And once you sit at the table with them, they're not going to cut their own throat. They tell us what they can or fix what they can. If a bus is running late, they check it out or whatever they can do. 

But they are at the table. They are totally not the enemy. And right now, we don't-- well, I think we have a director. I think we have one now. 

DAVID HOFF: So I would say, yeah. I would say one thing you're saying is obviously knowing if you're going to get them involved in these planning processes, whether it's with the Transit Authority, Metropolitan Planning Organization, whoever it might be, knowing what they're responsible for and what they can control is really important. 

And it sounds like they're very clear what they can and cannot do, but they're at least open to the things and discussing the things that they do have responsibility and control of. Have you been involved with the MPO at all, with the planning organization? 

LYNN NORRIS: No. I think that's a hard group to get into. I think they are very selective. This is what I'm [INAUDIBLE]. So many layers there. It's not just go in and advocate, and lobby, and all that. There's so many faces of it. You can't get over this because you're locked out. Only people can go to that. Only your state reps can go to this. So how are you getting in? 

They fix it where you cannot. You can only go so high. We've had all kind of rallies, and people calling in, and doing all of this. At least we did get some funding and they did not cut services. But they starting all over again this month-- the governor's budget. And I really don't think he-- I don't know. MassDOT or the governor has no stomach. 

Boston is servicing 3 million people. Now, our 15 communities are 3 million. So who you think they're going to look at, one big city compared to 15 little cities? And they forget Worcester is the second-largest city in New England. People forget that. But it's a big difference in $88 million that you need for funding for 15 communities. That's chump change. 

That's 7.1% percent for us, and for the MBTA funding is 92.9%. What a big difference. We can't even get a lousy 10% for 15 communities. 

DAVID HOFF: Yeah. Well, it's also, as you're quoting these numbers, the thing that comes to my mind is the importance of knowing your data so you can at least make your case. Not that you're always going to be successful, but at least you understand the information. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: And speaking of success, Lynn, outside of collaborating with key partners and developing that relationship with key officials, what other successes would you say you've had as a result of your advocacy efforts? 

LYNN NORRIS: Well, we didn't get the cuts, and that's the most successful, and we didn't get weekend services cut because they were talking about cutting weekend services. And a lot of these little cities, believe it or not, they come to Worcester for medical services because they don't have medical services in their cities. 

So can you imagine? They can't even get to a hospital or to a clinic? I met a lady the other day that has to pay somebody to come from Milford to Worcester to see her doctor for one hour because the bus services. 

DAVID HOFF: How far is that 

LYNN NORRIS: I have no idea. Really, outside of Worcester and Southbridge, that's all I know. I was talking to her and she was waiting for her pickup. Her daughter had to take the day off to come to take her. And I was like, what? 

DAVID HOFF: DeBrittany, I'm sorry. Did I cut you off? 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: No. No, please go ahead. 

DAVID HOFF: So if you were to give advice to somebody in terms of what is the key thing or the lessons you've learned about getting involved in transit planning, what would you say that is? If someone were to say, I want to get involved in my community, either in Massachusetts or elsewhere, in another part of the country, what would be your advice? 

LYNN NORRIS: You got to have tough skin, patience, and really you also need somebody-- like a tag team, you need somebody with you, because they would tear you apart with the policies and they good at avoiding the issue. We don't have the money. We don't have the money. That's all I hear. We don't have the money. 

And then you come up with suggestions about, OK, what about a grant for this? Nobody's giving money. They're good at detouring you. They keep you looking for research. Let me research this. And it shouldn't be that difficult. It really shouldn't. 

DAVID HOFF: I think one thing you sort of alluded to, but one thing we found in our work, is sometimes information and materials not being in language or presented in a way that is really understandable to the general public. It's sometimes an issue in terms of inclusiveness, and particularly for people because sometimes people are speaking sort of insider transportation language, or somebody might have a disability, or English might not be their first language. 

It might be a variety of reasons. Have you found that? Have you found that to be an issue that information is not always easy to take in and understand, or even available? 

LYNN NORRIS: Well, yes and no. I know most of these organizations that are on board about the transportation and all that, they definitely have translation. And the thing of it is, you have to meet people where they are. You want to get the elderly involved? You have to go to their senior citizens places. 

You want to get the youth involved-- and a lot of time, because of how the buses run, they start running if the youth have a job. So he's stuck. The buses aren't going to pick him up. He may get there, but there's no pick up. And even if the kid takes an Uber, the Uber will not pick up a minor. A minor has to have somebody with him. So that goes out the door. 

So it's so many barricades. I really don't think they want transportation to work in Worcester. 

DAVID HOFF: Well, you bring up a really good point, which we have certainly seen in our work, is the real importance of entities that are involved in transportation planning to not just say, well, we have a meeting and nobody shows up. Then the question is, are they going out in the community and meeting people where they're at? 

Are they meeting people-- whether it's older adults, whether it's youth, whether it's people, whoever it might be-- are they going out in the community to where people are at, rather than saying, you need to come to us to provide input? 

LYNN NORRIS: That's exactly what happens. And if you look at it, the most voting block are your elderly. Those politicians, honey, when it's time for election, they're in every senior center there is, bringing them ice cream and pizzas. So they know where to find them. And also, you can only beat a dead horse for so long. After a while, people's spirits-- they stop fighting. 

And plus, if a youth has a job, his parent is not going to be wanting him-- what is the age they can't work? After 8 or 9 o'clock? Most parents don't want their kid on a bus at 9 o'clock by themselves. And if there is a connecting bus, if there is. A lot of time, there is not. You might get to the hub, but your next bus might come at 10:00 or 11:00. No, not 10:00. I mean, not 11:00. I don't think any buses run that late. 

And that's also a problem with the working person. Anybody working 3:00 to 11:00, forget it. You're not going to get the bus home. You've got to catch a taxi. So that's also a problem. 

DAVID HOFF: We want to thank Lynn Norris at Worcester Community Connections for joining us on this edition of the Transit Planning 4 All podcast. Lynn's story of transportation advocacy shows the critical importance of recognizing an issue and making your voice heard. Personally, I found it interesting how a family support organization identified lack of transportation as a critical issue for the individuals it works with. And instead of saying, there's nothing we can do, they took action and began advocating. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: In her advocacy, Lynn recognized the importance of building a coalition with others so that she was not the lone voice advocating, which is critical to effective and inclusive advocacy. She also partnered with organizations that already have strong connections and experience in effective advocacy, and are already focused on transportation needs, which was critical to her success. 

DAVID HOFF: Another observation, DeBrittany that I found was connecting with Senator Harriette Chandler at the Massachusetts state legislature was also really important. Having an ally with a decision-making body like a state legislature who can be a guide and provide support, in terms of the ins and outs of how to effectively advocate, and who to advocate with, can really be very helpful as you're working with a decision-making body. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: Yes. And what I also took from our conversation with Lynn in terms of engagement in transportation planning is understanding the parameters of the organization you're advocating with in terms of what their role is, in what they control and don't control in terms of transportation. If you understand the organization you're advocating with, you are more likely to be better received and much more effective. 

DAVID HOFF: If you want to learn more about the organization that Lynn serves on the steering committee for, Worcester Community Connections, you can go to their website, which is Worcester-- W-O-R-C-E-S-T-E-R-- community connections dot org. That is worcestercommunityconnections.org. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: This podcast is a production of Transit Planning 4 All, an inclusive and coordinated transportation planning project seeking to increase inclusion in transportation planning and services for people with disabilities and older adults. 

DAVID HOFF: Transit Planning 4 All is funded by the Administration on Community Living at the US Department of Health and Human Services. Transit Planning 4 All is operated by the Community Transportation of America-- CTAA-- in conjunction with NAAAA, the National Association of Area Agencies on Aging, DJB Evaluation Consultation, and the Institute for Community Inclusion at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. 

DEBRITTANY MITCHELL: Our project website is acltoolkit.com. If you have any questions or comments on this podcast, please go to our website, acltoolkit.com, and click on the "Ask the Expert" section. Episodes of the Transit Planning 4 All podcast are released monthly via our website and on various podcast platforms. This is DeBrittany Mitchell. 

DAVID HOFF: And this is David Hoff. Thank you for listening, and please join us again.